#10842 - 06/17/0601:58 PMDo I really have to sign the back of my card?
Anonymous
Unregistered
Can someone settle this for good? Am I supposed to sign the back of my credit card or not? What are the liabilities if I do/don't? Can I just write "See Photo ID" and not sign? What happens if I have that on there and the clerk never checks - and it's fraud. Who's liable? HELP!
The question that I always ask is why would you not want to sign your credit card? Usually, the answer that I receive is so that someone who steals your card can not forge your signature. But there are a few things...
First, I looked through my wallet and noticed that all of my credit and debit cards indicate not valid unless signed. So, if you don't sign (even if you write "SEE PHOTO ID") then the card is not valid. - So yes.
Second, if you leave it blank, the person doesn't need to forge your name, they simply write your name in their handwriting!
Finally, it is very easy to forge some sort of photo ID. How about making your own "work id's".
If the card is not signed, the clerk should not accept it. A credit card company could argue that the card was not valid. However, they would have to prove that the card is not signed. If the credit card company or merchant can prove that the signatures match, then you would assume the loss. If they can not prove that it was your signature, then they would assume the loss.
#10844 - 06/17/0605:01 PMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
Anonymous
Unregistered
So - the signature spot on the card is blank, and I hand it to the clerk. He (or she) looks at the back, sees it's not signed, and says, "I need you to sign it." So - you do. Now it's a valid, signed card. Since they never ask for ID, you're home free. Oh - it was a stolen card. And - like noctrl02 said - now it has YOUR signature on it.
I personally put "See Photo ID" on the back of my cards as usually it has the desired effect of prompting the cashier to check my ID. I've never been prompted to erase this language and sign it. Visa requests that this not be done and for the cashier to ask the patron to sign the card. I don't understand why they would ask people not to refer to photo ID, but I guess it makes sense to someone.
#10847 - 06/19/0612:41 PMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
kaybee (K. Blanchard)
Diamond Discusser
Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 4021
Loc: Mid-Atlantic Region
The US Post Office will not accept cards with See Photo ID or See ID on the back. Theoretically, it is for basic signature comparison, although trying to sign those cards is difficult.
While I understand that the credit card companies require/prefer the signature on the back of the card, I would just like to present this scenario and ask that anyone supply me with feedback as to why this would be a bad idea:
I write on the back of my card "Please see ID". The clerk then has me sign the receipt and holds onto my card and merchandise until I have signed it. Then the clerk looks at the back of my card to verify the signature matches. The clerk then reads "Please see ID" and asks to see my ID. Then the clerk verifys the signature that is on my ID matches the signature on the receipt...as well as the photo on the ID matches my face. If something there is suspicous, the clerk can stop the transaction right there.
Now, 1 out of 100 clerks would actually do this...as most today don't even look at the back of the card. But to me this is very logical. Any thoughts as to why the credit card companies would not want to do it this way? Thanks.
Quote: Ever since a fake driver's license? There pretty easy to acquire nowadays.
Yes, but at least there would be an extra step to the process. Right now if someone steals my card, all they have to do is sign my name (if that). But if they make you present a license, at least the thief would have to go through the process of making a fake ID. Though I realize your point...there is no perfect solution.
#10854 - 06/20/0612:27 PMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
Anonymous
Unregistered
Yea, there really is no perfect solution. Although, requiring a pin for every card(even credit) at the point of sale would be ideal for security purposes.
#10855 - 06/20/0610:50 PMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
kaybee (K. Blanchard)
Diamond Discusser
Registered: 12/27/00
Posts: 4021
Loc: Mid-Atlantic Region
Quote: While I understand that the credit card companies require/prefer the signature on the back of the card, I would just like to present this scenario and ask that anyone supply me with feedback as to why this would be a bad idea:
I write on the back of my card "Please see ID". The clerk then has me sign the receipt and holds onto my card and merchandise until I have signed it. Then the clerk looks at the back of my card to verify the signature matches. The clerk then reads "Please see ID" and asks to see my ID. Then the clerk verifys the signature that is on my ID matches the signature on the receipt...as well as the photo on the ID matches my face. If something there is suspicous, the clerk can stop the transaction right there.
Now, 1 out of 100 clerks would actually do this...as most today don't even look at the back of the card. But to me this is very logical. Any thoughts as to why the credit card companies would not want to do it this way? Thanks.
If you didn't sign the card, what signature are you matching? (Not that I think any of this matters much, there are so many ways to commit fraud.)
[Quote]If you didn't sign the card, what signature are you matching? (Not that I think any of this matters much, there are so many ways to commit fraud.)[Quote]
The signature that is on my ID. My state prints your signature on the front of your ID. I guess that I should not assume that all states do this.
#10857 - 06/21/0610:51 AMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
Anonymous
Unregistered
I find the timing of this thread interesting. Just this morning there was a quote from a local city's detective investigating the fraudulent use of a credit card. One of the detectives suggestions is to not sign the back of the card. As someone else here mentioned, if I don't sign the back of the card and someone steals it, they only have to sign my name in their handwriting and they will be able to use it with no questions. I fail to see how not signing your name prevents theft.
#10858 - 06/21/0612:28 PMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
XODUS
Diamond Poster
Registered: 05/31/05
Posts: 2346
Loc: OKC, OK
that's why some people should not be allowed to speak. You should sign your card because it protects you and your institution. Clerks aren't going to check your ID because it slows the sales process down, business does not want that. Making everybody enter their PIN is ok as long as your bank doesn't charge you for entering your PIN at merchants, otherwise every purchase you make costs you an extra $ amount. Also, as has been recently seen when a merchant who stores PIN info gets compromised it makes things particularly ugly.
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#10859 - 06/21/0606:26 PMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
David Grodsky
Member
Registered: 01/19/06
Posts: 65
Loc: Seattle, Washington
Just sign your card. Both Visa and MasterCard view a signature panel with only "See ID" as an unsigned card. Merchants are responsible for any fraud that occurs with unsigned cards if they are later recovered by the bank. Asking for ID is not sufficient and is not allowed as supporting information in an Arbitration or Compliance case.
If the card is not recovered, your bank is then responsible for the unauthorized activity, which can ultimately affect your cost of doing business. Signing the card doesn't hurt you and it lowers the possibility of fraud, which in turn lowers operating costs and fees etc. You win.
And by the way, not signing the card is most likely in violation of your card agreement (assuming your bank uses a standard agreement) While you may end up with protections under Reg. E or Z, the bank is not required to reissue you a card. And if you assert your claim too late and get no protections, the bank can use the unsigned card as a reason to stick you with the fraud activity.
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My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer.
#10860 - 06/22/0603:44 PMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
Anonymous
Unregistered
When I worked in retail (5+ years ago) my employer required that we accept an unsigned card for purchase. I did not agree, but was told they would rather risk the charge back if it is fraud than the bad feelings and 'inconvenience' the customer would receive. No, the customer is not always right!!
I agree with David, and have never understood the reluctance to sign the card. At least if my card is stolen, the thief has to try to write like me! Also, as Launchpad brings up, my signature is on my drivers license, so if my wallet gets stolen, the thief can use my DL to try to forge my signature. Also, here at our bank, we will not accept a credit card for a cash advance if it is not signed. And finally, as Kaybee points out there are so many ways to commit fraud that I don't know how much protection not signing offers. If your card is stolen or missing, report it immediately, and this will offer you the best protection.
I have to agree with MelissaAnn. In order for the card to be valid it has to be signed, if you wish to have someone double check your signature, write SEE PHOTO ID next to your signature. Every card in my wallet is signed, then with my trusty sharpie, I have written SEE ID. Most commonly I have been asked to see my ID, and the once I was told to sign my card, I was able to tell the clerk he needed to pay closer attention to the card.
Unfortunatly, it really doesn't matter anymore, I have customers who were sitting at my desk while transactions were going through their card (same card number they are presenting me) on the other side of the country. My opinion, the best thing you can do to prevent this type of fraud is watch your card accounts as often as possible (internet), with a minimum of monthly (statement), to ensure invalid transactions are not being processed. This will help you and your bank minimize any possible loss. The sooner the bank knows, the sooner the card can be stopped.
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The posts I make are those of my opinion or research and not the opinion or advise of my employer.
Quote: My opinion, the best thing you can do to prevent this type of fraud is watch your card accounts as often as possible (internet), with a minimum of monthly (statement), to ensure invalid transactions are not being processed. This will help you and your bank minimize any possible loss. The sooner the bank knows, the sooner the card can be stopped.
Great advice; unfortunately there seem to be quite a few people now a days that would rather try to load that responsibility onto someone else -- like their bank, or some clerk who really just doesn't care very much. Just like anything else, we all have to do our part to prevent fraud. The "system" can't control it all by itself.
If credit cards companies want to make the credit world safer, get with the photo credit cards and like several banks do now get a thumbprint with each transaction. It might take a minute longer, but the savings to consumers would be extraordinary.
#10865 - 09/07/0603:08 PMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
John Burnett
Compliance is my life
Registered: 10/27/00
Posts: 12642
I'd like to believe that the McDonald's clerks of the world would pay more attention to my mug shot on my card than they do to my signature. But the reality of the marketplace suggests otherwise.
#10867 - 09/12/0611:36 AMRe: Do I really have to sign the back of my card?
Andy Z
Compliance is my life
Registered: 10/27/00
Posts: 18284
Loc: On the Net
My bank issued debit cards with photos of the accountholder on them. This increases costs and slows delivery. We also still suffered from fraud losses, both at ATMs where the photo was moot (PINs are often on or with the card -- a bad idea for everyone but the crook) and at cashier's stations where the concern was getting the customer rang up moved out. I am not aware of any statistical benchmarks so I can't say how our losses differed from other banks. But again, at ATMs or other unmanned stations, the photo was meaningless.
It doesn't hurt, it may help, but this increases user costs.
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AndyZ CRCM My opinions are not necessarily my employers.
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