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#182 - 09/01/03 06:42 PM Internet Scam
Anonymous
Unregistered


[Editor's Note: This question was submitted via email.]

I was recently scammed out of $2600. I was selling my car over the internet and given a counterfeit check. I took it to my bank and it looked like they ran it through some kind of device and gave me the money. The check was for $5000. I was given $2600 for the car and the other $2400 was for shipping the car. The teller handed me the cash, so I ASSUMED that everything was fine. Well, I went on the internet to balance my check book and my bank accounts were frozen! I had to call the bank and ask them what was going on. I hadn't shipped the car yet, so I still had the $2400, but spent the $2600 on christmas presents for the kids, car repairs, tires, bills, etc. They tried to seize the money from my checking accounts making me not able to pay my bills and loss my apartment, etc. They say I have to pay the $2600 back. I've heard that they should have asked me to fill out an Affidavit of Forgery and other things, but they've never called or anything. What
are my responsibilities? How would I have even protected myself? I took the check to my bank for God's sake. I feel angrier at the bank than at the person who scammed me.

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#183 - 09/01/03 07:57 PM Re: Internet Scam
HRH Dawnie Offline
Power Poster

Registered: 08/12/02
Posts: 7292
Loc: Anchorage Alaska
You might try doing a search of this issue or counterfit cashiers checks within BOL. The long and short of it is...you are liable to the bank for the item. Unfortunately this scam is very prevalent. You state you're more angry at the bank than at the folks who scamed you, but frankly, they know how the banking system works, and put you in this position knowing the bank couldn't react upfront due to the laws we're governed by.

You're lucky the item came back while you still had the vehicle. Many lose the item they've sold as well as all of the funds from the check. We at the bank have no way of knowing if the item is good. The "thing" the tellers sent the check through is just a processing device that probably told them the check was a cashiers check, and that it came from a particular bank. It does not have the ability to decern if the item was counterfit or not.

I won't spend a great deal of time on the issue, because a search will show you that you're the unfortunate victim of a nasty criminal. Yes you should go ahead and visit the bank to fill out the proper paperwork, but I'll warn you...it's unlikely that these folks will be caught and your money refunded. Be thankful you still have the car to sell to make good on the additional funds. In the long run hopefully you'll be even on the deal since you held back from spending the funds to ship the car.

Don't ever sell a car on the internet to someone offering more than it's costs! You're likely dealing with a crook. If someone wants to have shipping covered, suggest that they arrange shipping themselfs. When you take a cashiers check from a source you are unaware of, you can ask the bank to call the presumed issuing bank to verify, but this is not a standard practice. You should also sit on the funds for at least two weeks. We would love to require you to do so...and not put you in the position you are in, but federal law ties our hands in this matter, which the crooks know.

Your anger should be directed at their evil, not the bank. I am sorry however that you are in this position! I personally find the crooks in these matters really tick me off! I feel badly for the banks they're taking advantage of, and in particular the clients they abuse.
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#184 - 09/01/03 08:05 PM Re: Internet Scam
Andy Z Administrator Offline
Compliance is my life

Registered: 10/27/00
Posts: 18284
Loc: On the Net
The bank has to follow guidelines on making the funds available by a certain date, depending on where you are and where the check was from. They may have also "screened" the check to see if there were any known problems at that time. Those requirements and precautions may have given you the impression that the check was good. But until it is drawn on an account at that persons bank, there is no guaranty that the funds are actually there and can be withdrawn with that check.

The transactions need to be reversed back along the way to "un-do" what was done. The bank didn't benefit from the check, as you did, and they should not accept a loss just because they followed required practices. What documents and reports need to be filed will depend on the particulars of the scam. Call your bank and ask for the Security Dept. Tell them you suffered a loss and (if correct) you would have liked some waring from the bank that these scams exist. Perhaps they can warn other customers before this happens to them.

While of little relief, you didn't lose like others have, you are not the first and you will not be the last. Usually the excess from the check is sent back to the issuer. At least you have something to show for the money.
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AndyZ CRCM
My opinions are not necessarily my employers.

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#185 - 09/02/03 12:15 AM Re: Internet Scam
JacFSB Global Moderator Offline
Power Poster

Registered: 11/19/01
Posts: 4078
Loc: On my soapbox
I agree with all of the prior suggestions, and I would like to add another. As I suggested in another thread, see if your bank is willing to accept payment arrangements on the shortage, or even offer you some short term financing. Hopefully, once your car is sold you will be able to square everything away, so this shouldn't create any long-term change in your budget.


Edited by John Burnett (09/02/03 11:57 AM)
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#186 - 09/02/03 12:17 AM Re: Internet Scam
Bonnie M Global Moderator Offline
Power Poster

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 5117
Loc: Southern California
You could try writing your Congressional representatives and ask them to repeal Reg CC, or more precisely, the Expedited Funds Availability Act. That's the law the requires the bank to make at least $5,000 from the Cashier's Check immediately available to you. This is the loophole that these criminals exploit.

I say try, because more than likely, Congress will do nothing.
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I am not a lawyer and I don’t play one on TV. These are simply my own opinions.

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#187 - 09/02/03 02:01 PM Re: Internet Scam
complylady Offline
Gold Star

Registered: 07/29/02
Posts: 369
Loc: Florida
As you can see from the banker posts, this is a real concern. My son-in-law has sold several large items (cars, boat, etc) and has asked me the best way to handle it. Being a banker and paranoid, I say, don't take a cashier's check - it may be counterfiet, don't take a personal/business check - make be a fake, don't take cash - it might be counterfiet or if it is after the bank is closed they could leave with the item and break in the house later as they know the cash is there and then they would have the merchandise and money. Then he is left with "how do I get paid". The only way I can think of is to go with the person to their bank and let them write a check, you cash it and then purchase a cashier's check and take it to your bank. This of course does not work if the location of the buyer and seller are not in the same general area.

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#188 - 09/02/03 02:51 PM Re: Internet Scam
redsfan Offline
Power Poster

Registered: 12/07/00
Posts: 2826
Loc: Fishers, IN, USA
One alternative is to wire the money. The only problem with that is, you have to give the purchaser your routing number and account number. This is enough to create counterfeit checks on your account.
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The opinions expressed here are personal and do not represent opinions of my employer.

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#189 - 09/02/03 03:08 PM Re: Internet Scam
SoccerMomQueen Global Moderator Offline
Power Poster

Registered: 04/09/01
Posts: 2632
Loc: Glistening in the South!
You could wire the funds POPI (Pay on Proper ID) or with instructions to call customer or a particular officer of the bank. Once the bank has rec'd the wire, the customer or the bank officer can make the deposit. I bet we start seeing more of this type of activity thanks to the growing ID theft issues.
_________________________
Compliance-—"It’s not about having a piece of paper, it’s about reading it." -----Ken Golliher

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#190 - 09/02/03 03:25 PM Re: Internet Scam
Anonymous
Unregistered


Our bank does not accept PUPID wires. The wire must have a valid account number or we send it back from whence it came.......

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#191 - 09/02/03 05:07 PM Re: Internet Scam
Bonnie M Global Moderator Offline
Power Poster

Registered: 06/01/01
Posts: 5117
Loc: Southern California
This is why PayPal has become so popular. Others can send you money without having to know any of your bank account information.
_________________________
I am not a lawyer and I don’t play one on TV. These are simply my own opinions.

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