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#1940 - 04/29/04 12:30 PM Forgery question from non-banker
salvo Offline
New Poster

Registered: 04/29/04
Posts: 2
Loc: Chicago
I work in Corporate Security for a P&C Insurance company. I have a situation involving an alleged forged endorsement on a settlement check. We issued a settlement check payable to our insured and his common law wife payable as "XXXXXXX & XXXXXXX Individually and as husband and wife". The wife(common law) took the check forged the husbands name signed her own name and deposited the check into her individual account.

I now have two questions:
Are two signatures required on such a check payable as "Individually and as husband and wife"?

The husband also has a medical condition affecting his memory. He states that he does not recall if he gave her permission to sign his name or not, but states that it does not matter as it is still a forgery. Does the UCC touch on the issue of signing anothers signature with authorization? I believe there must be intent to defraud.

Thanks

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#1941 - 04/29/04 12:41 PM Re: Forgery question from non-banker
Anonymous
Unregistered


I believe only a court could definitively answer your question.

The way that item is made out is not consistent with generally accepted banking practices. A check can be payable three different ways: jointly, alternatively, or ambiguously.

I believe your item is ambiguous and, as such, could legally be deemed payable alternatively, meaning that only one of the parties would need to endorse.

However, I think an argument could also be made that it was payable jointly. (I think it's a weak argument, but it could be made.)

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#1942 - 04/29/04 04:00 PM Re: Forgery question from non-banker
ahb Offline
100 Club

Registered: 11/19/03
Posts: 108
Loc: WestMass
Please keep in mind that "forgery" is a state law question, and that some states have community property laws and others don't. In my state, I would think that the endorsement does not meet the way the check is made out; I would also think that the "wife" signing the "husband's "signature" would not be deemed proper; except perhaps if the wife had the husband's permission to so sign it. In some cases under the UCC, there is no liability found if it can be "proved" the wife had the explicit authority of the husband to do what she did. Not in all the cases however.

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#1943 - 04/29/04 04:32 PM Re: Forgery question from non-banker
Fraudman, CPP Offline
Diamond Poster

Registered: 04/22/04
Posts: 1548
Loc: Connecticut
Read your state's UCC concerning how checks are drawn and the endorsements required. This will tell you what you need to know. Usually, if the check is drawn with an & both endorsements are required. If there is only one endorsement or both with one forged, return the check without entry to bank of first deposit for proper endorsement or refund.

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#1944 - 09/24/05 06:46 AM Re: Forgery question from non-banker
NmbrOne2ndToNone Offline
New Poster

Registered: 09/24/05
Posts: 9
Thats interesting because if the wife deposited that check into her individual account-im surprised it wasnt rejected. At my bank, if its a check payable to TWO people but the account has a sole owner, then you have to document two positive IDs of the non account holder along with obtaining proper endorsement.

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#1945 - 10/12/05 08:31 AM Re: Forgery question from non-banker
Dana Turner Offline
Gold Star

Registered: 12/08/00
Posts: 424
Loc: Pipe Creek TX - U.S.
As a former forgery detective, I'd accept an "information-only" report but I wouldn't work the case. Because forgery is a crime, a law enforcement agency will only work crime cases. Based upon the information supplied, it would be unlikely that a forgery could be proven or that either of the two persons created the signature -- there are simply too many moving parts.
_________________________
Celebrating 35 years of crime . . . danaturner@email.com

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