I recieved a check as a gift from an ex fiance to help me pay off my car. When he wrote me the check we were together, and on the for line he stated it was a gift. I called the bank it was written upon to verify if I could still cash it. They took the date and the account number and amount and told me no problem. They confirmed that I needed to go to the branch it was written upon to cash it with an ID. The next day I did just that. After succesfully cashing the check I deposited a substantial portion of it into a new account I opened right then at that bank. The rest I took home in cash. After three days with no word from the bank I began to pay off some bills with the cash I had taken home. After 7 days the bank contacted me saying that not only had they taken the money I deposited but I was now responsible for paying them the money they had cashed for me. They said that because he had not had sufficent funds they should not have cashed it. Because of the size of the check over 10k I was under the impression that because I went to the bank it was drawn upon that they would have verified the availability of funds on the spot. Because of this I spent the money under the impression their was no way it had not already cleared. I was under the impression that they should be harrassing him for writing me a check that did not clear, not the other way around. They have threatend to take me to collections If I dont pay every penny back. What should I do? Am I responsible for their mistakes? They also said after he was informed of the check being cashed he put a stop payment on it, although he had Ample time to stop it before (months). Thanks for any help im really upset since Ive already used some of the money I supposedly owe back to pay off bills. This is in California if the state matters for this situation. Thanks for any help you may offer. I just dont want to pay for legal help if I am indeed responsible for the banks mistake

This one has me scratching my noggin'. I'm thinking that they screwed up, got stuck with the cashed check, realized that you opened up an account and now are trying to come to you for it to cover their loss.
If you had deposited the full amount, I don't think they could have come back seven days later for an NSF check...especially since it was an 'on-us' item.

You said that when he was informed of the check being cashed, he put a stop payment on it. That was his way of stopping it if you were going to represent it a second time.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but with the details that you've stated, I'm thinking your bank is trying to put something past you.

what should i do to correct this problem? are there any more details i can give you? thank-you so much for responding

The answer to the question will depend on how this transaction proceeded. When you went in to "cash" the check, did the teller physically hand you the full amount of the check in cash, you walked over to a desk, opened your account, and took the remainder of the cash home.
OR
Did you verify that at that time your ex had the funds, walk over to a desk to open the account with the physical check still in hand, open the account, and then receive a portion of the check in cash.

The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) Section 4-215(a) says that a bank has made "final payment" if a check is paid out fully in cash. So once the cash crosses the teller's counter, it cannot be taken back. If senerio 1 is what happened, you have a case against the bank for violating the UCC.
HOWEVER

If the person who opened your account took the physical check to open your account and only gave you a portion of it back as cash, then you are competing with all of the other checks that cleared your ex's account that day. The bank then has the right to decide which checks to pay and which checks to return, and normally they will pay smallest to largest to pay as many items as possible. In this case the bank has the right to charge the check back against your account and require you to pay restition as the bank is allowed until midnight of that day to decide which checks to honor and which to return.

I am sorry for the situtation you find yourself in, and I hope that the first sequence of events is what took place, otherwise I'm afraid you may be out of options.

It is my opinion that the bank is wrong in this case as you state it. You state that you cashed the check. Did you take cash for the check, then open the new account with the cash? If that is the case and the check was drawn on the bank that you cashed it at and they didn't reject it then due to insufficent funds and the stop payment won't work because the order was issued after the check was presented. It would seem to me that your ex would be responsible for the overdraft that was created. When you cashed the check, it created what is called "final payment" and you are discharged of liability under the UCC code. Most states follow the UCC code but I don't know if CA does.

I would also suggest going up the food chain and talking to supervisors and bank management. A branch may be trying to recover its mistake.

To me it sounds like the bank screwed up and you should not be legally liable, but you should talk to an attorney to make sure.

On moral grounds, why would you cash this check after the relationship ended? Why not return it?

Unfortunatly although I told them to cash the check in full and then open the account, the latter is what took place to the eye. Now the question is am I responsible for the portion of cash that they Did indeed give me at the time. Some of that has been spent. I filled out a deposit slip for 7k so I believe that the account was actually opened after the check was "cashed" although I never physically had the full amount of the check in my hand. Am I still responsible for the money that I have spent. I was under the impression that It had all cleared since I cashed it at the issuing bank. Thank you for your help. What steps do I take to protect myself from the Bank taking me to collections over this.

Here is exactly what took place. I asked the bank supervisor or whatever it was at the desks, not a teller to cash the check. During that proccess he asked me about accounts etc. He took my two forms of ID and brought up the account I believe or at least the signature on the computer. I believe he actually did it as two seperate transactions but did the 7k deposit without handing me the 7k. From my receipts is it possible to see how they deposited the amount of money? They also took the money that I deposited in my savings which was definitly cash but a much smaller portion. I feel that I asked for the first situation to take place because I did ask to have the entire check cashed, I believe if it was done in the latter way It was the bank supervisors decision and not mine. Does this make any difference?

total for the check was 10k , 7k was deposited, my account now has -3k for balance, my savings is gone. And the first contact I got was being threatend to go to collections. I feel im really being screwed by the bank I would have rather them not just cashed the check then cash it and take it back. When talking to the employees of the bank they admitted to making mistakes such as not verifying the amount of the check, or looking at the date. Is it illegal for them to take that money and overdraft my acccount without notifying me.

I notifyed him after cashing it as a courtisy, I did not want him spending more and accidently overdrafting his account. I feel because I took the check to the issuing bank because they did not verify it on the spot they made it my fault. I was under the impression that, I went to the issuing bank for that reason and that reason only, If I had thought it had not been verified for funds I would not have spent a penny.

If they didn't contact her for seven days about the return, aren't they pushing the limits on an on-us item anyway? Let's say that she deposited the full amount into her account today. Since we know it's written off of the same bank, it's an on-us item. As long as it was deposited before their cut off, it would try to post to the guys account, they would need to return it the following day.
There's no way that it should have taken 7 days.

Sorry, I think the bank knows it screwed up and is trying to recover their money from the wrong person.

The time delay is a concern (7 days after the check was processed?). I know that our bank has to make a decision within a day as to returning large items such as this. I would agree with bluebanker about the time. When did it post to his account and when did the bank return it?

I remember specifically that he asked me how I wanted the cash, at the point I told him that I would probably deposit some and take the rest in 100's. Does this mean that the first scenario earlier stated took place in which they cashed the entire amount then I deposited?

When talking to bank Asst manager they said stuff clears the night of, I would not be able to tell when it posted to his account and when it returned.

Im looking at the deposit slip how can I tell which method of depositing the money they used. The deposit slip says cash near upper right corner and i dont see the word check on it anywhere. Thank you all for your quick responses helping me dearly.

The late return would be based on the "midnight deadline" which is midnight of the day following the business day of deposit. This means that if the deposit was on Monday, the bank would have until midnight Tuesday to make a decision on the item and debit/credit the affected accounts. So the timetable to worry about is not when you were contacted, but when the chargeback occured on your account.
If the chargeback met the required timetables then under UCC 4-214 the bank can revoke the provisional credit it gave you on the deposit and take the funds back, in this case causing an overdraft because you took cash back.

The messy part of this situation is whether or not the bank honored your request to cash the check and make your deposit as cash. Also, did the bank return the check for "non-sufficient funds" when they took the money back or as "Payment stopped" Once a check has been honored, your ex cannot put the stop payment on legally, but if it was returned non-sufficient funds, her can put a stop payment on it before you can redeposit or cash it.

In any case, it sounds like you will need a good attorney to fight this situation and prove that the bank did not heed your request to cash the check up front which is what has caused this entire mess. I agree with the other posters that the bank acted improperly in its dealings with you. I am simply trying to look at all legal angles so you know what your up against becasue to get out of this mess, you will have to prove the bank acted illegally and negligently as opposed to simply giving poor service.

After analzying the accounts they have used the outrageous overdraft fees to clear out my savings, while at the same time taking the cash from checking. Leaving me with more debt then i started with because of overdraft stuff. While looking at the account the check was returned 3 days later. Cashed on the 21'st and Returned on the 24th. Does this violate those timetables? Once again is it possible to find out if they deposited cash from the deposit slip. I was first contacted about this , shortly before i posted today. Its actually not a deposit slip either it is a Deposit Ticket that they filled out.

The inital presentment was on a Friday, which, unfortunately, means the bank had until midnight Monday to return the item NSF. At face value the bank was within the legal timetable for returning the check for non-sufficent funds.
Your best case against the bank here is to convince a judge,jury, etc. that the bank was negligent for not cashing the check and depositing the item as a cash deposit (in which case final payment would have occurred right then and there and therefore could not be returned in any timetable.) I usually will be the first to defend a bank being that I am in charge of Operations for a 7 branch Commmunity Bank, but I would have to side with you on this one. The bank should have returned any other checks from your ex's account that came in on Friday and honored yours because your intention was to cash the check to avoid this very situation. The bank dropped the ball and I'm afraid it will try to hide behind the way the check was processed. Hopefully, reasonable people will realize this was not your fault and side with you.

I think that they're posting it late. And since they used a written slip, they manually did it.

Talk to an Operations head honcho and tell them that it appears they posted it late. Say that you'll get an attorney involved if you have to.

Good Luck!

Unfortunatly I had my calendar on 2004 which means that the initial transactions occured on Friday, and the Chargeback was on Monday, does this leave me anything to stand on, is saturday not considered a buisness day for banks even if they are open for buisness?

Next if they had cashed the entire check as crowman had stated then deposited "cash" into my account would I still have a defence. Its dissapointing that such little discrepincies, can help them place their many mistakes onto me. Instead of taking me out of debt this check has put me more into debt than I have ever been. Im pretty positive that the buisness day thing has been excluded from wrong doing because of the weekend .

I guess im stuck paying the bank back more then the check was worth. Rediculous that all this responsibility falls on me and not the person who wrote the check or the bank itself.

The bank informed me the funds were never available, they said it had been quite some time since their was anywhere close to that much money in the account. They said less then 10% of the total amount of the check was in the account. He has 100's of thousands so I assumed when they cashed it their was more then sufficent. So their was not enough funds as of Friday.

Thanks for any help I am compiling much of this information to report to their corporate branch, or at least a regional manager. I feel because his family is such an investment in the bank and because im such a little person they are protecting the interests of their "larger" clients. They contacted me a few minutes ago and also told me that the check wasnt even negotiable because of the date. Does that leave me at fault more , or less? Shouldnt they have caught that when they cashed it? Err im so frustrated. I seriously might have to quit college just to pay back this stupid debt.

Oops post 310351 was me I forgot to sign in.
Sorry

"Did you verify that at that time your ex had the funds, walk over to a desk to open the account with the physical check still in hand, open the account, and then receive a portion of the check in cash.

The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) Section 4-215(a) says that a bank has made "final payment" if a check is paid out fully in cash. So once the cash crosses the teller's counter, it cannot be taken back. If senerio 1 is what happened, you have a case against the bank for violating the UCC.
HOWEVER"

I never got up from the desk, i never dealt with a teller. From the deposit ticket I posted can you tell me which situation took place?

http://img171.exs.cx/img171/3250/slip3nb.gif

This is the picture of the slip - my sig basically, he also wrote ID on it. As you can see it says CASH> at the top does that me that the entire deposit was cash. It seems the question now is, was the process done as a cash deposit or a deposit from a check. Hopefuly someone can tell from that picture of the Deposit Ticket.

More bad news, I'm afraid. If it were a cash deposit, the $7000.00 would be listed next to the arrow pointing away from the word cash. However, there is a line there indicating no cash. Listed in the "Checks" portion of the deposit slip are the 10k check and a transfer from your savings account. The bottom shows the cash you took back from the check and the total deposit that you made. This deposit slip will add to the banks case and take away from yours.

Thanks for as much info as you have given me will hopefully give me the opportunity to take direction in the right way. Basically if they arent going to let me pay it off without fees over time with no intrest im going to sue.

You could go after your ex for the amount of the check. In most states it is illegal (theft by deception) to write someone a bad check.

Sounds like you will need a lawyer and maybe a letter from the lawyer to the bank president will help solve this.

A bank can choose what order it wants to clear checks. From a customer service perspective, if I pay the largest checks first, it will create more overdraft charges for my customer.
(Example) Balance is $1000.00
5 checks hit the account, $950.00, and 4 smaller checks for $100.00 each. iIf I pay largest to smallest, the 950.00 check leaves a balance of $50.00 and I hit you with 4 overdraft charges for the other checks. If I pay the 4 smaller checks, you get hit with 1 charge for the large check.

I would offer to settle with the bank for the amount that you deposited. Ask them to refund any fees that were caused by this situation. Basically, take your relationship with them to a zero balance. If they are unwilling, I would contact an attorney. At some level, they do need to take responsibility for THEIR mistakes. Now, it is obvious that the maker of the check did not wish for you to be able to cash the check as he placed the stop payment, so I wouldn't push too hard that you should be entitled to the full amount, right or wrong. I would, however, insist that you acted in good faith and did things the right way with his interests in mind when you made the transaction and ask that your liability be limited to the balance in the account ($7k, if I remember correctly). I disagree that he has the ability to place that stop payment after it was presented at a window, but that might be a little deeper than I've dived into the regs. Good luck.

Quote:

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A bank can choose what order it wants to clear checks. From a customer service perspective, if I pay the largest checks first, it will create more overdraft charges for my customer.

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But, more than likely, the larger checks are more important, house note, car note, etc. and these items would be paid with the smaller checks (to the grocery store, gas, babysitter, etc.) being the ones that are returned.

Another option is to pay in check number order, generally a customer writes the most important checks first. The catch in this is that it depends on when the checks get to the bank for payment. You may write the house note on the 1st and mail it and then write a check for gas on the 5th; the check for gas is written 5 days later and has a higher check number but it is local and actually gets to the bank before the house note which has been mailed across country.

All systems for processing of checks have some good points and some bad. As consumers, depending on the given situation, we may prefer one system one day and a different system on another day -- hopefully, the system the bank selects is beneficial to both parties.

I have a couple of questions for the original poster - what was the payment for? Did the individual receive something of value in exchange for the payment? Why did you wait until the item's date was stale to present it?

I didnt want to cash it when we were thinking about getting married and get tied down to him if it wasnt right. Reason I did not cash it right away. Second of all now they are calling it a fraudulent transaction, and have taken the money out of the account, of the person that went with me to cash the check. We are not related in anyway nor our, our accounts. They claim that because he was at the desk with me when he opened his account, and some of the money came from me that they can take it all. Alot of it was his money I do not see how this is legal at all.

This story is getting weirder and weirder.
Maybe it's the facts that are being laid out but something is telling me that we're not getting the full story.
Now, there's a third individual that was with you and he opened an account as well using proceeds from this one check?
I'm sorry but something is starting to smell awfully fishy.

This is getting beyond anything that you will be able to straighten out by just talking with a manager. I can only suggest that you see an attorney that knows UCC.

You didn't say what the payment was for, or if he received something in exchange for the payment.

they told us that if we opened accouts we would get a free 50 dollars for opening a savings account. So he used some of the money , just to get the free 50. Now more then the original 300 is gone, plus a negative balance. He was just my friend and just went in with me thats all he was depositing cash at the time and cash only.

What sounds fishy, what info do you want to know. I think i disclosed almost everything. The deposit he made was only 200 of the money from me and 100 of his they took all that and some of his checking and now he had a negative balance as well. They basically says he cant touch any part of his account tell i take care of mine.

Payment was to help me pay my car off nothing in return for it. It even said gift on the For line of the check.

now your story is becoming borderline scary, that any bank would do this. I would stop writing on this board, contact, in this order: the Bank President, and explain what is happening to you and letting him know that your next call is to an attorney, and then the regulators. Regardless of his answer, I would then call and write the banks regulators (state banking commission, FDIC, and OCC, as applicable). Then, I would copy the bank president with all correspondence to them. Finally, I would contact an attorney. Additionally, the person who "was presnet when opening the account with you" is not liable for any of this. Have them contact the local authorities to press charges.

Basically it would have been 40 times better if I would have known checks expired and would have never cashed it. They are basically hurting those around me now to get me to pay it back, how is this legal. Now his account has fraudlent warnings on it as well even though at the time we had no idea their was Insufficent funds or whatever. How is this fraud on our accounts anyway, shouldnt it be on him for not having sufficent funds to pay a check he signed?

Thank you for the help once my friend brought the authorities with him their entire dimenear changed. I believe it was to scare me. They let me keep the cash that they had alreay cashed and the 7k was theirs to keep. As for my friend he will probably still press charges. Additionaly authorities told me this has nothing to do with the case I could go for against the issuer of the check. I think the aditional pressure and harrasment the bank brought upon my friend strenghtend my case enough to where they just didnt want to deal with me anymore thank you all for your help would have never had the courage to stand up to the bank without your help.

Just curious, original Anonymous, why do you have the "Deposit Ticket" rather than a receipt for your deposit? Usually the Deposit Ticket would have been processed with the transaction and you would have been given a receipt. I'm with Amy.

Perhaps her bank makes the images available to her via online banking.

Or she could be just mixing up her jargon. Sometimes my wife refers to the receipt as "the ticket" or "Slip"

Another option, if you don't feel like you're getting good answers from your bank is to contact oversight bodies - your state banking regulators, etc. Also, I know some folks have had good success by contact BBB's and Chamber of Commerces.
If her request was that they cash the check and then open the acccount with the $7k - I would have a concern on why they are now rolling this back on her - Also if the stop payment was applied after the encashment, it appears to me the banking center is trying to cover their butkus!!
If management won't sit down and talk things over with you, I would definitely proceed to state oversight boards.

I'm sorry you've had this situation, and my comment is based soley on what you've shared with us - let me assure you that this is not how all FI's operate!

I had an insurance office to write send me a check in the mail.
That same day I went to the bank and got it cashed but I do not
have any kind of account with this bank.
The bank teller cashed the check for me.
The bank teller sent me a message 4 or 5 days after the check
was cashed and told me that the check has been returned with
a stop payment on the check.
My question "What do I do in a situation like this?"

The bank will debit your account. They want the money back that you received for a bad check. But that is secondary as it is an "effect" and you need to go to the cause of the problem. Why was there a stop payment issued? If the funds are due from the insurance company, go back to them to resolve the real problem.

You are much better off contacting your states banking commissioner & asking them to straighten it out. Banks are getting terrible these days. I had a similar problem for months, i called the bank commissoner in CT. and within 2 days the bank returned the money? goodluck