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#5167 - 03/04/05 02:22 PM usury laws
Ben1381 Offline
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Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Rockland County NY
Have there been any court decisions regarding where a bank's operations are located? If a bank for usury law purposes claims to be located in Delaware but has substantial operations in other states can they also be subject to the usury laws of those states?

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#5168 - 03/04/05 04:39 PM Re: usury laws
happygilmore Offline
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Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 3236
Loc: Back in New Orleans
I think you need an attorney, not bankers. I know our bank is Chartered in Delaware, but we are not located there, not do we have branches there. The chartering in Delaware was done for protection of senior officers.
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#5169 - 03/07/05 01:25 PM Re: usury laws
Anonymous
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Aren't there any bankers out there that are also attorneys or have a good knowledge of banking laws?

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#5170 - 03/07/05 01:27 PM Re: usury laws
Ben1381 Offline
New Poster

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Rockland County NY
Aren't there any bankers out there that are also attorneys or have a good knowledge of banking laws?

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#5171 - 03/07/05 02:22 PM Re: usury laws
1 Peter 5:7 Offline
Platinum Poster

Registered: 06/08/01
Posts: 923
Loc: Oklahoma
This is a pretty complex topic. You could start by researching "preemption" and "exportation" as those terms are used in the context you describe.
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Opinions expressed are mine; not my employer's. Take nothing as legal advice.

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#5172 - 03/08/05 02:51 PM Re: usury laws
Ben1381 Offline
New Poster

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Rockland County NY
Let me clarify what I'm asking about. Chase Manhattan Bank is trying to raise the interest rates on my credit cards to over 20%. They claim to be "located" in Delaware. But they also have major operations in New York,Florida and Texas. Could they be subject to the usury laws of those states?

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#5173 - 03/08/05 03:11 PM Re: usury laws
happygilmore Offline
Power Poster

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 3236
Loc: Back in New Orleans
in this case no, as the credit card company is Chase Manhattan Bank USA, Inc, NA, which is a duly chartered bank in Delaware and only has offices in Delaware. They are a subsidiary of the holding company of JPMorgan/Chase but are not the same bank as JPMorgan/Chase/BankOne.

If you pay it on time, they will lower your rate, not raise it.
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WC done for US - let's hope we fare better in the Tour de France

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#5174 - 03/08/05 03:29 PM Re: usury laws
Ben1381 Offline
New Poster

Registered: 03/04/05
Posts: 12
Loc: Rockland County NY
I don't believe Chase Manhattan Bank "only" has offices in Delaware. I just got a copy of my credit report today and it shows addresses in Florida and New York for the credit cards on the report. And employees of other "divisions" of Chase work on the credit cards too. And the branches in the other states collect payments too. Has any court issued any decisions on this issue?

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#5175 - 03/08/05 04:06 PM Re: usury laws
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

I think you need an attorney, not bankers. I know our bank is Chartered in Delaware, but we are not located there, not do we have branches there. The chartering in Delaware was done for protection of senior officers.




Chartering in DE is usually done for tax purposes too...many corporatation are chartered in Deleware because of the tax advantages and costs to incorporate.

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#5176 - 03/08/05 04:57 PM Re: usury laws
happygilmore Offline
Power Poster

Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 3236
Loc: Back in New Orleans
You and and I offered my opinion. Of course, that was after I already suggested that you contact an attorney. I obviously can't provide you the answer you want to hear. Sorry.
_________________________
WC done for US - let's hope we fare better in the Tour de France

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#5177 - 03/08/05 09:05 PM Re: usury laws
Dan Persfull Offline
Compliance is my life

Registered: 08/28/02
Posts: 16057
Loc: Bloomington, IN
Doing a Google search using "exporting credit card rates" will provide you with several hits for you to explore your question. Here's an example of one of the hits.

Dear Dr. Don,
I have a credit card with an interest rate that is now up to 39.99 percent. Is this illegal? It started out lower but has really gotten up there.
Thank you
Loren Loan

Dear Loren:
Your credit card agreement gives the provider the right to raise the interest rate on your credit card under certain conditions, such as late payments on any loan, or for any reason at all as long as it provides the notice required in the agreement -- typically 15 days. This Bankrate feature shows the ways creditors look for an excuse to raise your rates.

Consumers expect protection from their state's usury laws, but the governing law is the maximum interest rate permitted in the bank's home state. Credit card companies headquarter in states with high rates or no maximum rates so they can have more flexibility in setting rates.

A 1978 Supreme Court decision in Marquette vs. First Omaha Services confirmed the legality of nationally chartered banks exporting the terms of their cards to states where the laws regarding interest rates restricted such practices. This Bankrate feature has more on this practice.
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The opinions expressed are mine and they are not to be taken as legal advice.

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