I went to cash a check at a bank. Okay I didn't have an account with the bank but I have a driver's license as an ID but the bank said they needed my thumbprint on the check. Isn't that a violation of my privacy/civil rights?
Why? Did you ask the bank/teller what they did with the thumbprint - the only time the thumbprint is ever used is if the item is returned to us as having been part of a fradulent activity. Be realistic - banks are a for profit entity and we don't have time to sit around and run every thumbprint through some data base - that's just ludicrous. What civil right do you feel is violated - were you denied a job? What privacy was violated? Do you feel the same about having to give your drivers license?
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WildTurkey
Platinum Poster
Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 905
Loc: Down South, USA
You didn't have to give your thumb print, .... but then again the bank didn't have to cash your check. If you want to use a bank is it so unreasonable that you have to leave an identifying record with the bank of who presented the check to be cashed?
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This is my opinion; it is not legal advice, nor the view of my employer, and it may change tomorrow.
Chiquita Banana
Platinum Poster
Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 867
Loc: The banana bin
It's not a privacy issue to show a drivers license that is a picture ID AND shows the address where the teller will write the number and expiration down but it is for a thumbprint?! I can do more damage with the drivers license information than I could with a thumbprint (if I wanted to that is).
People confuse me.
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The artist formerly known as 'Swedish Chef'
Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 3236
Loc: Back in New Orleans
Yesterday was my pet monkey's birthday, and my parents sent him a check. We went to the bank to cash it, but they refused as monkeys don't have thumbs...
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Quote: Yesterday was my pet monkey's birthday, and my parents sent him a check. We went to the bank to cash it, but they refused as monkeys don't have thumbs...
Groan.
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Wells Fargo now fingerprints on all new accounts. When I opened my account they said it was part of homeland security rules to check for potential terrorists opening bank accounts. I was pretty offended and felt my rights were being violated.
Quote: Wells Fargo now fingerprints on all new accounts. When I opened my account they said it was part of homeland security rules to check for potential terrorists opening bank accounts. I was pretty offended and felt my rights were being violated.
If you have nothing to hide then I dont see the problem... It takes you about 3 seconds and can help prevent alot of problems with those who DO have something to hide
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A wise man washes his hands after he pees.
A wiser man doesn't pee on his hands.
Well, you can make all your financial records available to the public too based on that rationale. What do you have to hide? But, do you really want to? With so much identity theft, do you want someone to have access to your fingerprints too?
Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 3236
Loc: Back in New Orleans
Sorry slosser, but if you can't trust your bank with your fingerprint and financial data, then maybe you need to just live on a cash basis. Providing a fingerprint to a bank is not making that information public. There is no public database where fingerprints are being exchanged. Although there is no provision in homeland security or the patrot act that says that banks must do this. You can certainly look at other banks and find one that doesn't do this if it would make you feel better.
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WC done for US - let's hope we fare better in the Tour de France
Raymond
Platinum Poster
Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 506
Loc: Back to Kansas
I have always thought thumbprints were goofy. If I present a check drawn on your bank (whether I have an account there or not) and request payment, you should check my ID and cash the check. Asking for a thumbprint is useless. If I defraud your bank, you're not going to find me any faster with my thumbprint. Are you going to run around town, like the prince in Cinderella, trying to find a match? It's just silly, IMHO.
There is a lot of identity theft out there and that is why your fingerprint is so great. If someone was to steal your info, but your print is on file with Well Fargo they can tell that it was not really you. Your fingerprint is one thing that no one can phish from you or dumpster dive and get.
Given that the bank in question is not truthful about why they require the print, why should they be trusted with anything? Even if it's a poorly trained CSR who doesn't know what's bank policy and what's government regulation, it's still a trust issue.
Chiquita Banana
Platinum Poster
Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 867
Loc: The banana bin
But Builder, does Wells have the forensic technology to do thumbprint analysis themselves? If not, then what's the point? The only time I can see it coming in handy for them is if later the customer claims stolen/forged checks and they submit a police report. AND even then it's silly...in my opinion because most urban environments aren't going to do any fingerprint analysis in the majority cases. Those cases are going to rely on other facts.
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The artist formerly known as 'Swedish Chef'
Chiquita Banana
Platinum Poster
Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 867
Loc: The banana bin
Me again...
I kinda agree with Ray. Fingerprints on a whole are kinda goofy. At least for third parties obtaining them. I've seen grocery stores get thumbprints. Which is fine but think about how many hands touch that check during processing. I can't imagine any forensic department lifting a good print when it's been touched by countless people....and that's if the person giving the print did it the right way.
I do see the benefit of obtaining prints across the teller line as the check doesn't make as many stops along the way and the likelihood of keeping the print is better. It has helped in a few of my cases but the print was only a small piece of the overall investigation.
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The artist formerly known as 'Swedish Chef'
Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 3236
Loc: Back in New Orleans
well, unless wells is doing a compare between the thumbprint provided and their online databese, this makes no sense. Generally speaking, banks only require a thumbprint on a check when it is an on-us item presented by a non-customer (someone from wells writes me a check, I go to wells to cash it), not when the actual customer is cashing the check.
Ray, the thumbprint is used for police purposes, not to verify your identity. As easy as it is to create a fake ID, they can submit the fake ID and the check with the thumbprint to the police. If you are the typical dumb criminal, your fingerprints would be on file and they may be able to find you from there.
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WC done for US - let's hope we fare better in the Tour de France
So how long will it be before there's a regulatory reporting scheme like SAR or LCT report or a check against a master list like OFAC when someone with a flagged fingerprint comes in?
WildTurkey
Platinum Poster
Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 905
Loc: Down South, USA
Quote: Me again...
I kinda agree with Ray. Fingerprints on a whole are kinda goofy. At least for third parties obtaining them. I've seen grocery stores get thumbprints. Which is fine but think about how many hands touch that check during processing. I can't imagine any forensic department lifting a good print when it's been touched by countless people....and that's if the person giving the print did it the right way.
I do see the benefit of obtaining prints across the teller line as the check doesn't make as many stops along the way and the likelihood of keeping the print is better. It has helped in a few of my cases but the print was only a small piece of the overall investigation.
I think that you've missed the point of taking a thumb/ finger print whether at a bank or in a grocery. It is not to prove that the individual handled the check but to provide a firm record of who presented the check at the counter - to enable a later definitive ID to be made in the event of an arrest. You can claim that a photo ID can be faked, or isn't a good likeness, or that a signature was forged, but if the accused person left a thumb print it is close to water-tight proof that it was that person who presented the check.
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This is my opinion; it is not legal advice, nor the view of my employer, and it may change tomorrow.
Raymond
Platinum Poster
Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 506
Loc: Back to Kansas
Quote: the thumbprint is used for police purposes, not to verify your identity.
I appreciate the news flash.
Regardless, I still think it's goofy. Most of the "thumbprints" I've seen on a check look more like a black blob than a print. My guess is 99.9% of the prints are put on the checks by the person providing the print. Plus, it's only one print. So unless you have Columbo and Dick Tracy working at your local police, I doubt you would ever identify the person with the print you have. You might as well say is was Cornel Mustard in the library with the candle stick.
Chiquita Banana
Platinum Poster
Registered: 06/11/02
Posts: 867
Loc: The banana bin
Wild- I think we're missing each others points.
I understand what you're saying and I agree. I'm just stating that the likelihood of a print being valuable after being handled a lot (gets worse when it's been returned multiple times) starts to go down.
A member of a forensics lab was giving instructions on technique for obtaining fingerprints. He brought up the fact that a lot of prints are worthless because either the person obtaining the print doesn't know proper technique or the person committing fraud knows how to make a "bad" print. The more the check gets handled, the worse it gets.
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The artist formerly known as 'Swedish Chef'
Registered: 06/11/04
Posts: 3236
Loc: Back in New Orleans
chef, with the quick drying ink, regardless of how often it is handled, unless it is smudged at intial placing, it is not affected by handling by multiple people
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WC done for US - let's hope we fare better in the Tour de France
WildTurkey
Platinum Poster
Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 905
Loc: Down South, USA
Quote: chef, with the quick drying ink, regardless of how often it is handled, unless it is smudged at intial placing, it is not affected by handling by multiple people
Which was also my understanding, hence my earlier post "picking at" the Swedish Chef [sorry!].
_________________________
This is my opinion; it is not legal advice, nor the view of my employer, and it may change tomorrow.
Aw, let's just go full force and go ahead and get those transplants like some animals have so we have be scanned and identified at any time. No problem, right? Make everyones life easier. We honest, hard-working, tax paying people should just passively accept things such as this. Meanwhile, the criminals are still at large. Some people would say I'm off the deep end but I firmly believe it's like all the gun laws we have. The honest civilians register and the criminals still get the guns illegally.
WildTurkey
Platinum Poster
Registered: 01/17/03
Posts: 905
Loc: Down South, USA
Quote: ..... The honest civilians register and the criminals still get the guns illegally.
I agree, let's make added account security voluntary on the part of the customer - you can opt out if you like, but I'll sign up for the thumbprint and retinal scan technology. ..... That way the crooks can focus on defrauding your account, stealing your identity, and trashing your credit, and they'll leave me in peace!
_________________________
This is my opinion; it is not legal advice, nor the view of my employer, and it may change tomorrow.
Banks are requesting thumbprints because the local police are requiring thumbprints on checks before they will investigate a check related crime. No thumbprint, no recourse for the customer or the bank.
Quote: Banks are requesting thumbprints because the local police are requiring thumbprints on checks before they will investigate a check related crime. No thumbprint, no recourse for the customer or the bank.
What area are you from, I have never had PD turn down a case for lack of a thumbprint, we are thumbprinting now.
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